priory of castle acre norfolk england

St Clair DNA - R-L193 SNP Results

A Confluence of Surnames in DNA SNP Matches,
in STR Matches, and In Medieval Records

By Steve St. Clair                                                            More reading on the Glasgow R-L193 Lineage
St Clair Research                                      Keep up with the latest on our St Clair DNA study at our blog

(updated 11/20/2011 withThetford Priory connections and some clarifications)

The last time I checked, Family Tree DNA had tested over 500,000 individuals. One of the wonderful things about the database is that it allows members to check to see who among all those tested match their STRs within a reasonable number of mutations. These matches are the subject of much discussion among two groups in the study of DNA: amateurs who think they matter a great deal and “old hands” who think extreme caution should be exercised in making any claims from STR matches.

First, a note to other DNA researchers:

Early in the St. Clair Research study, I decided that STR name matches might be an interesting tool to use in comparison to the historical records of our family in Normandy, England and Scotland.  I was cautioned about putting too much credence into this due to the fact that the R1b haplogroup was known to show false positives due to STR migration over many thousands of years, especially among the Atlantic Modal Haplogroup (AMH). We R1bs were successful breeders since the last Ice Age. And so I stopped paying too much attention to STR name matches.

In fact, I was told by many fellow amateur DNA genealogists with more experience than me to completely ignore the STR matches. I was left wondering why Family Tree DNA offers the option to see these “useless” comparison tools on each participant’s personal page.

As instructed, I wrote most of these matches off to the fact that I’m part of the Atlantic Modal Haplogroup (AMH) and migration of the R1b haplotype. In fact, I still write a large percentage of them off to that. But I’ve come to realize that too many absolute statements in the study of DNA are actually hindering real research. What are needed instead are caution, patience and realistic expectations.

When counseling others, I take an approach that starts with a clear and honest discussion about their goals. If I hear the words “Templar” or “William the Conqueror” or “Rollo,” I run the other way.  DNA is not an “express train” to fame. If those researching DNA for genealogy can view STR matches as simply one blurry tool which they can use to mix in with solid records research and, especially with SNP testing, then they should commit to a year or 2 of research to see where it leads.

Here, then, is the approach I take with such research:

1) Finding name-matches in your STRs is never enough to make any definitive statement. But it’s still worth looking into, as you’ll see below.

2) The honest researcher admits that interesting names in your STRs + your SNP matches could also be explained by a non-paternity event. That said, they’re more interesting as far as this research goes because SNP matches are irrefutable.

3) Finding interesting names in your STRs +  SNP matches within the period of historical records + the historical records themselves must now be acknowledged as the best we can hope for in DNA studies. But the researcher must let the data lead where it may and not guide it with pre-conceived notions.

And then an interesting thing happened

All along, sitting in my STR name matches were lots of surnames, which as instructed, I studiously ignored - Vance (Vaux), Martin, Newton, Ferrer, Marshall, Boyd, Talbot, Mullens / Molineux, and Moubray, for example.

But then I was approached about testing for an as yet un-named SNP based on STRs called the 11-13 Combo. It turns out I tested positive for that SNP and suddenly matched Vance (Vaux), Martin, and Newton, as well as a growing list of other surnames.

As of this writing, almost all SNPs have an MRCA 2,000 or more years ago. I happen to be lucky enough to be R-L193, Group A-1. The current accepted TMRCA for this SNP is about 1,100 years ago, the year 900 A.D. These calculations are never precise, and come with a confidence factor that can add or subtract as much as 30% to the number of years. Some skeptical researchers weigh that towards the older end of the spectrum. This still puts L193 at least near the time frame of historical records and makes it a unique opportunity to do this kind of research. It would be a mistake to use any SNP at this point to claim a particular individual as an ancestor, even one in such a recent time frame. However, given that it's at least close to the time frame of written records, and using records and STR matches, it is an interesting project to look at possible "super families."

Given the timeframe of the R-L193 Group A-1 SNP being within or at least close to the period of historical records, I went looking for the St Clair surname in Norman records - them being such wonderful record keepers -  to see if I could find some of the other names in the A-1 group. And I did find them. Then, while in the records looking for Vaux, Martin and Newton, I also found some curious names that fit into the St Clair L193 Group A-1 STR name matches. These names got repeated again and again in the historical records of medieval England, mixed in with the St Clair family.

To clarify what you’re about to read:

I make no claims in this document. I arrive at no conclusions. I simply present this research as what it is – empirical evidence.

The research

Originally, I was perplexed by the sheer number of surnames in our lineage. But once I came to understand how little value medieval English society placed on maintaining one's second name, it seemed possible that this might explain at least some of the surnames in my FTDNA name matches.

In his 1636 treatise on surnames of Britain, William Camden had this to say about the changing names among the Anglo-Normans:

"But for variety and alteration of names in one familie upon divers respects, I will give you one Cheshire example for alI, out of our ancient roule belonging to Sir William Brerton of Brerton knight, which I saw twenty yeares since. Not long after the Conquest William Belward Lord of the moitie of Malpajfe, had two sonnes, Dan-David of Malpaffe, surnamed Le Clerke, and Richard; Dan-David had William his eldest son surnamed De Malpatfe. His second son was named Philip Gogh, one of the issue of whose eldest sonnes took the name Egerton; a third son tooke the name of David Golbome, and one of his sons the name of Goodman. Richard the other son of the aforesaid William Belward had three sonnies, who took alto divers names, vix,.Tho. de Cotgravey, Willia de Overton and Richard Little, who had two sons, the one named Ken-clarke, and the other John Richardson. Herein you may note alteration of names in respect of habitation, in Egerton, Cotgrave, Overton, in respect of colour in Gogh, that is, Red, in respect of qualitie in him that was called Goodman, in respect of stature in Richard Little, in respect of learning in Ken-clarke, in respect of the fathers Christian name in Richardson, all descending from William Bel-ward. And verily the Gentlemen of those so different names in Cheshire would not easily be induced to beleeve they were descended from one house, if it were not warranted by so ancient a proofe.”  (Camden  p. 141)

Further to Camden’s treatise, an extensive study of Thomas Sinclair’s book on the Sinclairs of England makes it clear that the changing of surnames was a basic theme of his work on our family. A study of Loyd in conjunction with medieval records also leads one to believe that many tenants of the great men of England share the same blood but have different second names.

Only some of our lineages have lots of STR name matches

It’s likely that not all cultures and regions had this practice of adopting the name of the land that one was living on. For instance, I haven’t seen lots of records of frequent name changes in the Highlands of Scotland during the medieval period. Probably because surnames came into practice there much later. Remember, the Norman influence came with David I, and then to the lowlands.

So I’m left wondering if having a large number of surnames might be explained by more than just STR migration in the Atlantic Modal Haplogroup (AMH).

Three of our Lineages show the incidence of a plethora of STR name matches. One is the L193 group. Another is our Exeter Lineage. The third is the U106 L48 Z8+ Caithness group. The Caithness group is particularly interesting because the other two U106 L48 Lineages (Z8 negative) do not have a wide variety of STR name matches. I should point out there is a split between these Lineages on the new Z group of SNPs which seems to indicate they don’t share a common ancestor for about 2,000 years.

The possibility must be raised that the incidence of a high number of STR name matches is at least partially the result of these Lineages of the St Clair family living in a medieval culture in which name changing was a common practice, and the other Lineages living in cultures where it was not.

Surnames in the R-L193 SNP, including Group A-1.

Being a member of the R-L193, A-1 subgroup, I have a new list of surnames with whom it is now 100% certain I share a common ancestor-

Vance / Vaux / Vaus (L193)
Martin  (L193)
Newton  (L193)
(to name a few)

Those matches are irrefutable. We share a common ancestor. Better yet, we can clearly see a time frame for when we share that ancestor.

Equally important, we can tell you when we do not share an ancestor; and that’s important in this research.

A researcher with the Yahoo group called “11-13 Combo Group” (studying L193) ran the numbers for me comparing our Sinkler markers with a particular group in the Vance / Vaus family and came up with an estimate for our time to most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) which was a little further back than my estimate which I formed using the TiP calculator on FTDNA. - 1,100 years ago, the year 900 A.D.

4 methods of calculation were used to make an estimate of the time period of our connection with a particular group of the Vance / Vaux family. 

Using that TMRCA, I realized we’re looking at an era about the time of historical records of England, France, Flanders and Normandy. So I began to look through the medieval documents for -
de Vaux, de Martin, and Newton to see if these names connected with de Sancto Claro.

As I went, I kept careful records of other names I found associated with those three surnames. As I found a name, I went back to my name matches to see if any showed up in my STR matches. Several were clearly connected to the St. Clair family somehow, both in the written medieval records and in our DNA name matches. Combining the L193 matches with the STR matches, here are many other surnames that show up in the records research, circulating around one another again and again:

Warren / Warenne 
Provost / Avranches
Ferrer / Newton-Ferrer  



Talbot / Talebot  

Vance / Vaux / Vaus  

Ashley / Assactesford / Esseleigh / Esselega


Meulan / Mullens / Molineux

Moubray / Mowbray

Each of those is in our STR Name Matches. Each is showing up in medieval records attesting charters with the others, passing on lands to the same abbeys and priories, fighting together or as a tenant of some closely allied person. In this document, I’ll outline many different historical records in which these names are showing up. But, first, some details about the STR Name Matching.

Minimum of 25-markers and up

The Vance / Vaux matches on the SNP R-L193 make it irrefutable that we share a common ancestor about 900 AD. Some might expect that we’d therefore be matching these families on 67 of 67 markers, or even 111 of 111 markers. But that’s not the way STRs work. In fact, we show STR matches at the 25-marker level with the Vance / Vaux surname and not up in the 37, 67 or 111.  That makes sense to me given the number of years that have gone by and the likelihood of some faster-mutating markers changing.

For this reason, I focused my search on all of our Lineages in the 25-marker region. I paid attention to the 37 and 67 as well, but these all show up in the 25-markers matches anyway.

Among the 25-marker region, I found that very interesting group of names listed above.

I’m currently requesting that those family members who show up in our STR matches take the test for L193. That said, we must keep in mind our shared MRCA may proceed the occurrence of the L193 SNP.  If the date of the MRCA for this SNP really is at the outside of the “constant mutation rate” estimate of 900 AD, then there’s certainly a good chance that only some of these surnames currently carry L193.

Sources are at the bottom of this page

The Historical Records -
Focused Medieval Records Research

The Abbeys and Priories

In the early Middle Ages, a religious practice had become common in which monastic communities had been commemorating the living and dead members of noble houses in their prayers. Many monasteries had been built for this sole purpose by noble families - the practice of “buying one's way into heaven” via prayers of religious houses. As a result, the benefactor and his descendants were promised regular prayer plus burial in the choir area or some other prominent area.

“Intercession for the dead became enmeshed with the welfare of living in a society in which the patronage of a monastery was not only a hereditary right but part of the very fabric of religious life." (Morganstern, p.4)

Stöber (p. 76) points out the close relationship between these abbeys and particular families went well beyond just praying for their souls. Thetford provided storage for some valuables of the Howard family. Others handled certain banking duties and made loans.

This practice of noble families becoming benefactors of monasteries means a large number of surviving documents are now available to genealogists today. But keep in mind that, while these gifts assured the prayers for family members, the notion of family in this society could mean completely different second names in these records, yet still blood relations.

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue (not proven by DNA)


In an extensive resource by Anonymous, “Calendar of Documents Preserved in France: Illustrative of the History of Great Britain and Ireland. A.D. 918 - 1206, Volume 1”  the records of 89 different priories and abbeys from France are represented.


Sancto Claro


Meulan / Mullen
(kin of Roger Beaumont)

in the Diocese of Lisieux

Location of the Vil of St. Clair
(Main de Sancto Claro witnessed this)
Vallibus / Vaux / Vale

The Domesday tenant of Hugh de Montfort in Kent is probably to be identified with the Main de Sancto Claro who attested a charter of Beatrice Malet, wife of William of Arques, Domesday lord of Folkstone in Kent (Eye Cart., no. 2). Fauroux, p. 33, shows that Richard Croc and his wife Benceline left to Préaux [Abbey] land at St-Clair. The identity of the place is obscure but could be either Saint-Clair-d’Arcey, near Bernay, Eure, or Saint-Clair-sur-les-Monts, near Yvetot, Seine-Maritime. His successor may have been the Normand de Assactesford (Ashford) who was an early benefactor of Monk Horton priory (K-R, p. 292).

for Benedicting Monks, in the Diocese of Rouen

Ver / Vallibus
Gualeran / Meullent / Meullen


for Cistercian Monks in the Diocese of Rouen

Wanchi / Vaux

/ Meulen / Meullers

for Secular Canons.

Mowbray (Bishop 1049 – 1093)
St Clair



William Malet who died in 1071 was from Granville in Normandy.  He accompanied William ‘the Conqueror’ and was responsible for the burial of King Harold at Hastings.  His brother, Durand, also settled in England and established a branch of the family in Lincolnshire.  William’s grandson, also called William, was banished in 1109 (presumably back to Normandy) and became ancestor to the Malets , Sires de Granville, with a branch of the family in Jersey (then part of the Dukedom of Normandy). (website, Mallet)

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue (not proven by DNA)

To be precise, the St Clair family are not mentioned in association with every abbey or property that will be discussed in this writeup. But given their lesser status than families like Montfort, De Vaux, Ferrer, etc. it's not surprising to see less of them, especially during the early post-Conquest years.

Tintinhull and Bretel St Clair
Domesday mentioning Tintenhall and Bretel St. Clair



The Priory of Lanercost was founded in 1116 by Robert de Vaux, Second Baron of Gilsland. (Naworth, p. 55) Nearby is  Naworth Castle, on which walls are the armorial bearings of the Dacres, quartering those of Vaux / de Vallibus, Multon and Morville.

It gets more interesting. The seal of the Lord Dacre of 1531 presents six quarterings which to modern eyes may seem to be marshaled in strange order. 1. Dacre ; 2. Grimthorp ; 3. Greystoke ; 4. Vaux ; 5. Morville ; 6. Ferrers. (Nichols, p. 571)
(His reference: Hodgson’s History of Northumberland, II. Ii. 379.)

Located just south of Bristol, England, Wells Cathedral

Agreement come to between the Prior &c. of Montacute and the D. and C. about a certain pasture called Westhaymore in Northeory Manor.

Test. the knights Robt. fil. Pagan ; Henr. de Urnaco [Urtaico] ; John de Erlegh / Ashley, John de Acton ; Robt. de Sancto Claro ; Gilbert de Bere / Vaux ; and Ric. de Nyweton ; Gregor de Welyngton ; Will. de Reigny ; Robt. Gyen ; Hugo de la Hele ; Walt. de Cam. John de Knappe ; &c. Given at Wells, May 14. A.D. 1303 (Bennett, p. 157)

Bennett has several other mentions of Erlegh / Ashley and Urtaico and/or de Bere testifying together at Wells Cathedral, sometimes with de Sancto Claro. (Bennett, p. 97, 100, etc.)  One of these, (p. 179) has a John de Burton also testifying.  The Burton surname shows up as a 67/67 match with the R-L193 lineage.

“Charter of Ric. Bp. of Wynton addressed to the Justiciaries. Has decieded a question which had arisen between the Church of Wells and Walerand de Wellesleg, his wife and her sister about land at Bidesham. The Church accepts a money payment, and W. receives 20 solidats of land.
Confirmation by Bp. Rainald of the gift to S. Andrew of half a vigrate in Northam, made by Galfrid Talebot.’

Colchester England Sinclair DNA
Colchester, on the southern edge of East Anglia is England's oldest recorded town,
had the earliest Roman colony, and had the largest Norman castle. It also had
the Abbey of St. John at Colchester, with which the St Clair family were associated.

In his work on Suffolk, Augustine Page mentions Hamo de St. Cleer in the Pipe Rolls in the 1st of King Henry II., and also in the Register of the Abbey of Colchester. Page also has Gerebert de St. Cleer living at Bradfield during he reign of Richard I. He had a son John who later held his first court for Morley's manor, at Grimston, in Norfolk, in the 41st of the reign of King John. (Page, p. 709) We'll run into Grimston again.

As for Colchester, both Hamo and William de St. Clere were benefactors. William gave them his Manor at Greenstead 'as formerly held by my lord Eudo Dapifer' for his soul's health and for those of his brothers, already dead and buried at the abbey. (Essex, p. 118)

Also in Essex (p. 148) we find mention of a charter showing Greenstead given by William, the earl of Gloucester to Richard de Luci.  Luci shows up again and again circulating around some familiar names in other places in this research. This particular charter was witnessed by, among others, Alexandro de Monte Forti (Montfort), Willelmo de Clifdon (Clinton), Rogero de Wilers (Vilers), Godefrido de Luci, Willelmo Croc, Reginaldo de Luci...

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in oranges
Names of interest are blue (not proven by DNA)

Vallibus, Montfort, Martin, Newton, Talebot, Tracy, Malet
(Bates, Rev. E. H., M.A.)

Sancto Claro, Mowbray (1483),

(c. 1181) Esselega / Ashley,

Haimo de Sancto Claro, brother and successor of William de Saint-Clair, tenant of the honour of Eudo Dapifer. Occurs from before Eudo's death in 1120 until c. 1137. Twice married, first to Gunnor, eldest daughter of Roger Bigod, and then to Margaret, daughter of Robert fitz Walter de Caen, he left a son Hubert by Gunnor (Lansdowne 299, fol. 146). He was accounting for one of these marriages, probably the second, in1129/39. Occurs with his brother in Cart. St John Colchester, i, 153, in his own right ibidem, 155, with his wife Gunnor, ibidem, 156; a charter of his wife Margaret's brother occurs ibidem, 158. He and his brother William gave the land of Richard de Vilers to Savigny [Abbey], with the assent of Stephen count of Mortain (Lechaude d'Anisy, Mem. Soc. Ant. Norm. t. xii (1841) app. 2) j.-N. Mathieu (Les comtes de Dammartin, Paris et Ile-de-France, Memoires,t. 47 1996) has recently suggested that his sister was Basilia, wife of Eudes de Dammartin (K-R V-2, p.685-6)

Richardson (p. 497) has a mention of the De Lanvalay family, a name I keep seeing circulating around these other names. Hawise De Lanvalay, daughter and heiress. She married before 1227 John De Burgh, Constable of Colchester Castle, Essex, son and heir of Hubert de Burgh, Knight, Earl of Kent, Justiciar of England, by his 1st wife, Beatrice, daughter of William de Warenne of Wormegay, Norfolk. Sometime before 1236 he subinfeudated the manor of Little Abington, Cambridgeshire to Hugh de Vaux. His wife, Hawise, died in 1249, and was buried in the Chapter House at Colchester.

Sinclair genealogy
The Medieval Manor House of Stoke Trister. Willelm de Sancto Claro was likely
the son of Bretel de St Clair, who held Stoke Trister of Robert de Mortain in 1086.
This Willelm was likely the father of Philip de Sancto Claro and
Walter de Esselega (Ashleigh) who held Stoke Trister in 1166. Note,
brothers with different second names.


Willelm de Sancto Claro occurs in the Pipe Roll of 1129/30 in Dorset and Wiltshire. Apparently successor, perhaps son, of Bretel de St Clair in the barony of Stoke Trister, held of Robert de Mortain in 1086, Perhaps the same as the William who occurs in the Pipe Rolls until 1164/65. Possibly father of Philip de St Claro (q.v.) and of Walter de Esselega (Ashleigh / Ashley) who held the barony of Stoke Trister in 1166. (K-R, p. 686-7)

Robert Eyton says that Stoke Trister was originally called Stoke D'Estre and was held by Richard del Estre by service of a third part of a Fee of Moretain.

Almost all of Britel de St. Clair's Domesday estates descended to the De Esselegh (Ashley) family, but that Stoke Trister was an exception, passing instead to the Del Estra family.  This Del Estra family were listed in the Somerset and Dorset Domesday as Feoffe of the Comte of Moretain.  (Eyton, p. 117) 

Montacute Priory
Montacute Priory, around which circulate many interesting names


Montacute Priory was a Cluniac priory of the Benedictine order in Montacute, Somerset, England, founded between 1078 and 1102 by William, Count of Mortain. It was the only Somerset dependency of Cluny Abbey until 1407. Bretel St Clare was a witness to the foundation charter of the priory of Montacute by William, Earl of Moreton, son of Earl Robert.

Early in the 13th century Robert Vaux granted a windmill and 6 a. of land in Seavington to Montacute priory. No further trace of the mill has been found.
Agreement come to between the Prior &c. of Montacute and the D. and C. about a certain pasture called Westhaymore in Northeory Manor.
Test. the knights Robt. fil. Pagan ; Henr. de Urnaco [Urtaico] ; John de Erlegh [Ashley] John de Acton ; Robt. de Sancto Claro ; Gilbert de Bere [Vaux] ; and Ric. de Nyweton ; Gregor de Welyngton ; Will. de Reigny ; Robt. Gyen ; Hugo de la Hele ; Walt. de Cam. John de Knappe ; &c. Given at Wells, May 14. A.D. 1303 (Bennett, p. 157)

In Somerset (p. 150)
“No. 93. Charter of R[obert] de Vallibus concerning the gift, grant, and confirmation of the wind-mill of Sevenamtone with the grinding of the manor and with six acres of land, near the said mill, from his own demesne.
Robert de Vallibus grants to the church of Montacute, together with his body, his wind-mill of Sevenamtune, with the grinding of the whole of the same manor, and with six acres of land, close to the said mill, from his own demesne.
Witnesses :—Sir Richard de Crues ; Sir Richard de Langeforde; John, chaplain of Nuserexe; Richard, chaplain of Pingho; Geoffrey Hanegot; William de la Mora; Thomas le Saye; Peter de Burgundia; Walter Wyldegos.”

That mention of the surname Saye is quite interesting. Thomas Sinclair (p. 76 and others) has the Saye family “inextricably woven together” with this family, the Vere earls of Oxford. Thomas Sinclair (p. 147) has more on this family and more on what I’ve found to be the general theme of his book: people during this time period changed their second name often – “The dukes of Gordon, marquises of Huntley, earls of Sutherland, so celebrated in Scottish history as Gordons, are not Gordons at all, but Setons, and Setons are Sinclairs.” In other records (Seton) I’ve found that Seton is the same as Saye who match our L193 STRs. From Thomas Sinclair (p. 76), “Eudo’s famly, the Clares the Consuls, the Fiffards, the Hamoes, are inextricably woven together ; and perhaps this is the wise way now of leaving the question of fixing the past for the house of Rye, to which Eudo was so great an ornament, of whose surname there is, by the Harleian MS., absolute surety. The relationships of his own children to the Mandeville earls of Essex, the Bigod earls of Norfork, the Vere earls of Oxford, the Beauchamp earls of Warwick, the Bohun earls of Oxford, Hereford, Essex, and Northampton, and to the lords, Saye, Buckland and Ludershall…”

On another page Seton acknowledges Thomas Sinclair’s claim but disputes it saying the family originated form Simon de St. Liz, “whose descendants assumed the surname of Seton.” (Seton, p. 226)  Yet we find the Saye surname in our STR matches. On page 49 of the same, Seton mentions that “Lord Seton married Catharine, daughter of Sir William St. Clair of Herdmanson.”

Corbett shows up in our L193 STR name matches and Henry Corbet at Brunton Abbey with William de Moyun / Mohun. Somerset (Page 107) mentions Henrico Corbet with what looks like land of "Master Warin" (Warenne) (Chaplain of the Earl of Gloucester) and Hubert Dapifer. 

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue
(not proven by DNA)

On page 72, of Bruton, No. 296. Grant by James de Novo Mercato to Thomas Corbet, for his homage and service, of a virgate of land in Welkingthrop, which Roger Cutard held, to hold by the service of the twenthieth part of a knight's fee in his manor of Horsinton. Also, grant of six oxen, one plough-beast...from Stawelle to Horsinton, called Schortewode, and in all places where his oxen feed, except his garden....

His testibus : - Rogero de Novo Mercato, Odone de Wondestre, W. de Frethorn, R. de Weston, R. Travers, Bartholomeo de Frethor, R. de Sancto Claro, R. Corbet.

Corbet and Sancto Claro are mentioned again (Berkeley, p. 1471) in the year 1361. Commissary ; Patrons, Dame Isabella, relict of Sir Henry de Welyngtone, Kni., "Racione minoris etatis unius heredis Willelmi Daveylles, defuncti" ; Sir John de Welyngtone, Knt., "Racione minoris etatis unius heredis Wilelmi de Sancto Claro" ; Lucy, relict of Richard Malet, daughter and one of the heirs of the aforesaid William de Sancto Claro ; John Hulle, one of the heirs of the same William, "racion uxoris Johannis predicti" ; Sir Richard de Mertone, Knt., racione minoris etatis heredis Philippi de Loccombe, dfuncti" ; Sir Robert de Heauntone, priest, "racione feoffamenti Ricardi Corbyn, defuncti".... 

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue
(not proven by DNA)


A Cluniac priory located in Norfolk, England. Founded by Roger Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk in 1103-04.

Agnes, daughter of Ranulf Filius Walteri, married Robert de Vaux, This Ranulf Filius Walteri was a benefactor of the Bigod foundation at Thetford. (K-R V-1, p. 354)

Hubert De Sancto Claro
Domesday tenant of Robert de Mortain in Somerset, identified in Exon; probably from Saint-Clair-sur-l'Elle, Manche. He attested William de Mortain's notification for grants to Lewes Priory of his father's tenants… (K-R, V-1, p. 257) So we know that a St. Clair was associated with Lewes, therefore de Warenne. Lewes and de Warenne were closely associated with Thetford. In fact, Stöber (p. 171) says the first 12 monks came to Thetford from de Warennes's Cluniac foundation of Lewes.

Castle Acre and Heacham were daughter houses to Lewes. William II of Warenne (d. 1138) also gave lands to Thetford. "Medieval prosopography, Volume 12" Medieval Institute Publications, Western Michigan University, 1991

Suffolk (p. 364-365) has a section entitled "The gift of two-thirds of the Manorial Tithes of Wells to Thetford Priory." In that is this section -  "All which gifts the said William {Bygod} confirmed to this monastery in the presence of William Maleth, William Bigot, Humfrey Bigot, Robert de Vallibus, Ralf Fitz, Walter Ethard de Wallibus, Richard de Caam, Robert de Bois, Ivo de Verdun, and many other of his men, and soon after Henry I. confirmed it.

Suffolk Institute of Archaeology"Proceedings of the Suffolk Institute of Archaeology, Volume 8" Suffolk Institute of Archaeology and Natural History, 1894

Brooke (p. 293) seems to have a John de Warenne, earl of Surrey in 1335, founding a house of Dominican Friars at Thetford.

Dodsworth's Monasticon (p. 142) has a list of those who were
benefactors to Thetford. Among them:
William Bigot
William de Warenne
Robert Malet
Hubert and Alexander de Vaux
Ethard de Vaux
Agnes de Vaux, daughter of Fitz Walter
Oliver de Vallibus
William de Albini
Sir Robert de Bosco
Hubert de Montchensey
Fulk Savigni
William de Bois
Robert de Exxes and Gunnora his wife, daughter of Roger Bigod
Robert de Vere
Ralph Fitz Walter (Confirmed by Earl Walter Giffard)
William Longespee, earl of Salisbury
Robert Brito

Stöber (p. 76) has the Vaux family connected to the lord de Ros per the records of the canons of Pentney in Norfolk. 


Loyd has this family as tennant-in-chief with the Wasprey family holding of them in England.

Thomas Sinclair mentions the Mowbray family on pp. 75, 89, 119, 139, 147, 148, 156, 157, 161, as strongly allied with the St. Clair family.

Much more to come on this family. This page is a work in progress.



Dryburgh Abbey was founded by Hugh de Morville, Lord of Lauderdale and wife Beatrix of Beauchamp c. 1150. (grose, p. 102)

The St Clairs were vassals of the de Morevilles, and most researchers guess that the family came to Scotland with Henry St Clair “Vicecomes” of Richard Morville, Chancellor of Scotland. From him, St Clair received a charter for Herdmanston. Researchers have not resolved whether or not Rosslyn and Herdmanston are of the same family. Interestingly, William St Clair received a charter for Rosslyn from David I. (Garretson, Cox & Company, pages un-numbered)

Chalmers has Henry St Clair’s son obtaining Carfrae in Upper-Lauderdale from William de Moreville. (Chalmers, p. 431) He has Henry serving the Morevilles as their Sheriff.

William de Vaux granted a charter to Dryburgh Abbey of the right of patronage of the church of Gullane, in the presence of Brother James, the papal legate, probably on 16 April 1221 (Dryb. Lib., no. 23). This was definitely William de Vaux lord of Dirleton, as his son John confirmed the grant in no. 25.


Like Haimo de Sancto Claro, Aitard De Vals (Vallibus / Vaux) was also associated with Roger Bigod. Aitard was a major tenant of Roger in 1086. The Thetford charter of c. 1107-10 mentions grants of Aitard and Robert de Vallibus. Robert may have been the more prominent tenant of Bigod. The successors of the Val / Vaux land holdings in 1166 were William fitz Robert de Vaux (holding 30 fees) and Robert de Vaux (5 fees). (K-R V-2, p. 126)

John de Vaux witnessed a charter of Robert de Brus (conventio with Bp Ingram of Glasgow), dating 1175 x 23.3.1189, prob. 1187 x (Glas. Reg., no. 72). If it is 1187X89, then it is the last appearance of John de Vaux. However, as this deals with the Annandale area, it is possible, perhaps probable, that this John is from the Gilsland family.

Roger Bigot also, had a lordship held by two freemen in King Edward's time, with 60 acres of land, which Robert de Vallibus, or Vaux, held of Bigot; there belonged to it 3 borderers with 8 acres of meadow, and half a carucate valued at 5s. and 4 freemen belonged to it, with 40 acres of land, and 2 acres of meadow; one carucate also in King Edward's time belonged to it, but half a one at the survey, and was valued at 5s.

Here is an extremely interesting account which may be an attempt to ascribe origins for the de Vaux family. "The barony of Gilsland, previous to the Norman Conquest, was in the possession of Gilles Bueth; but the Saxon proprietor was expelled by Ranulph de Meschines, a follower of William the Conqueror, and the barony was given by him, to Hubert, his kinsman, who assumed the name of de Vallibus, or Vaux, and whose immediate and remote posterity, were highly distinguished…etc. etc.

Robert, son of Hubert was the founder of Lanercost Priory in 1116, sheriff of Cumberland and governor of Carlisle. (Naworth, p. 4) His source is said to be Dugdale's Monasticon, p. 132.

Richardson (p. 685) has the history of Roger De Quincy / Quency. This Roger married his 2nd wife Maud De Bohun. After her death, he married Eleanor De Ferrers in 1252. She was the widow of William de Vaux of Tharston and Houghton, Norfolk. She was also the daughter of William de Ferrers, Knight, 5th Earl of Derby.

Burke (p. 437) says  
“The family of Vans or Vaus claims to be a branch of the great house of Vaux, so celebrated in every part of Europe. (See Burke's Extinct and Dormant Peerage.) On page 17 of the selection of the Harleian Miscellany by Kearsley, printed hi 1793, it is said, " Out of these confusions in England, Malcolm King of Scotland did take his opportunity for action. He received into protection many from England, who either from fear or discontentment forsook their country, of whom many families in Scotland are descended, and namely, these, Lindesay, Vaus, Ramsay, &c. Sec." Lord Hailes, Rapin, Hume, and other authorities, notice the reception of the Anglo-Normans by Malcolm.

Nisbet (Ar. Vans of Barnbarroch) says, "The learned antiquary and historian, Sir James Dalrymple, observes that the ancient surname Vans, in Latin Charters called De Vallibus, is the same with the name of Vaux in England, and is one of the first surnames which appear there after the Conquest. One of the family came to Scotland in the time of King David I. and in the reign of his grandson and successor Malcolm IV. Mention is made of Philip de Vallibus who had possessions in the South, and soon after that we find the family of Vallibus or Vans, proprietors of the lands and Barony of Dirletoun in East Lothian."

John De Vallibus is a witness to two charters of King Malcolm IV. the one No. 31 in the Coldingham Chartulary, and the other among the Lundin Charters.

In 1174, John De Vallibus was one of the hostages to the English, for the ransom of the Scots' King, William. He was s. by his nephew or cousin, John De Vallibus, designed son of Robert • of Ellebottl. The son and heir of this John, John De Vallibus, is called John the younger, Dominus de Dirleton, when granting five marks yearly out of his Fair of St. James's in Roxburgshire, as a composition regarding his disputed patronage of Wilton. This John in 1244, is mentioned as one of the Magnates of Scotland, in the Pope's ratification of the peace between England and Scotland. In 1255 he was one of the Barons who counselled, or rather forced, King Alexander III. to change his ministers. His grandson, John De Vaux, appears to have been the second husband of Dervorgill,* (the dau. of Allan, Lord of Galloway, by Margaret, eldest daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, third son of King David I. of Scotland,) the widow of Sir John Baliol, and mother of John Baliol, who claimed and obtained the Crown of Scotland. He sate in the parliament of Brighara, in 1290, and- the next year swore fealty at Berwick to Edward I. In 1298 he defended the Castle of Dirleton against the famous Anthony Beke, Bishop of Durham. In 1304 he was a principal party to the agreement' between Edward of England, and John Comyn, and according to Ryley's Placeta, John Comyn, Edmund Comyn, John de Graham, and John de Vaux, sealed this agreement at Strathord, the 9th February, 33 Edward I. The sincerity of this submission seems to have been more than doubtful, for in 1306, mention is made of him as a friend of Robert Bruce. To this John succeeded Thomas De Vaux, who is mentioned by Guthrie, and Brady as being one of the sixtyfive Earls and Lords who led the Scotch army at the battle of Halidon Hill, 19th July, 1333. He was slain in 1346 at Nevil's Cross, where also his successor, William Vaux, was taken prisoner. After being detained for some time in England, in captivity, he returned to Scotland, and his name appears in many of the transactions of that period, especially as a party "to the ransom of King David II. He died in 1364, and was *. by his eldest surviving son, William Vaux, who d. in 1392, and was succeeded by two co-heiresses; but whether they were his own daughters or those of his elder brother, Thomas, who had been killed at the siege of Berwick, in 1355, is uncertain. The elder wedded Sir John Halyburton,f and the second, Sir Patrick Hepburn, younger, of Hailes, ancestor to

* This second marriage of the grandaughter of the Earl of Huntingdon, is not mentioned by Wyntoun or others, but the evidence of it is to be found in the Dryburgh Chart, (Nos. 126,127,128, 129,) where is given a Charter by Alexander de Baliol of the wood of Gleddiswood, " qui quondam fuit cum Domni. Johannis de Wallibus, et Dna, Dervorgill Sponse sue"

Keats-Rohan (p. 126) has

Aitard De Vals
Norman, major tenant of Roger Bigod in 1086. Thetford charter of c. 1107-10 mention the grants of Aitard and Robert de Vallibus, and were attested by Robert and Aitard de Vallibus. Aitard was perhaps the younger brother of Robert, who was the more prominent tenant of Bigod in 1086. The successors to the Vallibus holdings in 1166 were William fitz Robert de Vaux and Robert de Vaux, holding thirty and five fees respectively. William was certainly the heir of the Domesday Robert; perhaps Robert was Aitard's descendant and heir. Some of his holdings appear to have passed to the Ho (from Howe) family, tenants of the earls [sp]sof Arundel; Farrer, HKF iii, 137.
ii, fol. 277b; ii, fol. 184; ii, fol. 188b; ii, fol. 188b, ii, fol. 125a; ii, fol. 124b; ii,

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue (not proven by DNA)


I've found this family can be very confusing. Luckily, my friend Rondo has helped to clear it up. 

There were several William de Arques of interest to us here. 
(1)  William 'des Arques' de Bolbec Viscomte des Arques (987 - 1035) son of Osbern de Bolbec Seigneur of Longueville and Avelina (not Crepon) des Arques.

(2) Guillaume d'Arques Vicomte d'Arques (1035 - 1086). Born Arques, Seine-Inferieure, Normandy. Died West Riding, Yorkshire, England. He was the Domesday lord of Folkstone. His second marriage was to Beatrice "Beatrix' Malet, daughter of William I Mallet, Sheriff of York, Seigneur de Graville. (Main de Sancto Claro witnessed a gift of theirs to Préaux)

Another direct descendant of these d'Arques in the 5th generation was William D' Avranches was born about 1125 in Okehampton, Devonshire, England and died before 1191 in Folkstone, Kent. I was shocked when I found a gentleman in my STR matches with the surname Provost who has good documents back to the Avranches family. We're in touch now and trying to learn more. He shows L21, but not L193.
Source for above - (Website - Washington)

Garnett (P. 102) [quoting “Norman Chronology, 291-2]  has another William, of Arques as a son of Richard II by his second wife Pepia. This makes him a brother by blood of Mauger, the Archbishop of Rouen. In Faurous Recueli, no. 100 (1035 x 43), an original, William is entitled “Vuilleimus, Ricardi Magni Ducis Normannorum filius, nutu superni regis, comes territorii quod Talohu numcupatur”, and attests “Signum Wille+Imi Aracensis comitis”.  That William was also named William de Talou, which looks a lot like Talebot.

This is obviously the same William de Arques, Domesday lord of Folkstone in Kent (Eye Cart., no. 2). Main de Sancto Claro attested a charter of this man. They were both associated with Richard Croc and Préaux Abbey.

He built the fortress of Arques, becoming Comte d'Arques. "Guillelmus Archensis Comes et frater meus, Malgerius Archiepiscopus, villam, que dicitur, Piriers, sitam super fluvium qui dictur Andela, cum appenditiis suis, per voluntatem matris mee Paveie, annocute Guilielmo, Normannorum Comite...”

In the above charter, William Count of Arques and Mauger Archbishop of Rouen, his brother, granted the vill of Periers Sur Andelle to the Monastery of St. Ouen at Rouen. Another charter of Mauger confirmed it. Mauger’s was witnessed by Hugh de Gournay II. Gurney says ‘These charters are of about the date 1047 - 1050; they are copied from the originals in the archives at Rouen.’  (Gurney, p. 43, Appendix III)  Anonymous “Calendars” (p. 29-31)


Robert de Sancto Claro of Stapleton held Shepton-Malet. A Sybil is mentioned, the wife of Sir John Malet. (Pearce, p. 222)  

Robert I Malet was the founder of Eye in 1105.
(K-R paper)

Robert Malet's intended foundation of Eye priory received a charter of assent from his sister Beatrice. Later, a precept of Henry I made it clear that she was the wife of William de Arques of Folkstone. Ralph of Bellicia named from the unidentified manor of Belice in Hayne Hundred.37 was doubtless one of the Ralphs who held land in Kent from Hugh de Montfort, probably Ralph de Courbépine (Corbett?). (K-R paper)

SNP matches are marked in red
STR matches are marked in orange
Names of interest are blue
(not proven by DNA)


The Talebot family were tenants of Warenne at Fincham and Feltham, Norfolk. (K-R, V-2, p. 1123)

The family is listed by one researcher (British, p. 186) as holding a large fee under the Gournays at Buchy, Beaubec. Geoffrey Talebot held lands in Essex under Hugh de Gournay III. Richard Talebot witnessed the foundation deed of the abbey of Cericy in Normandy by Walter Giffard, Earl of Buckingham in the time of the Conqueror. This family also made donations to the abbey of Bec and founded the abbey of Beaubec, near Forges, a Cistercian order.

In 1085, Willemus Talebot witnessed William de Warenne giving land to Castle Acre Priori. (Gurney, Appendix LXIII)

Thomas Sinclair (The Sinclairs of England, p. 111) has Geffrey Talbot related to Eudo Dapifer and left many knights' fees to Walter Sinclair[sic] of Medway. Sinclairs of England has Walter Sinclair of Medway (I have not seen that Sinclair surname spelling during this time period - I think Sinclair invented it) as an under-tenant from the Gournays who he says were married into the Warennes.

Thomas Sinclair focuses on the Talbot family several times - pp. 111, 104, 330, 395, 314, 247, 251, 321, 246, 249.

On p. 245, Sinclair ties the Talbot family to the Meduana / Medina family.

Loyd's list of tenants-in-chief has the St Clair family holding of Eudo Dapifer, but the Talbot family is listed as holding of Giffard. It's worth noting some of the other families holding of Giffard - Cressy, Grenville, Langetot, Milleville, Sackville.


Hugh de Gourney witnessed the foundation charter of the monastery of St. Stephen at Caen by William the Conqueror. (British, p. 184)

The Meulan / Mullen family are mixed in with this family as well. A Hugh de Gourney may have been prior of St. Nicaise de Meulan. (British, p. 184). Also, William de Montfort was a relative of the Robert, Count of Maulan, who was associated with the abbey of Bec. 

Sinclair (p. 110), in speaking of Hugh de Gournay captain of Castle Galliard, says “That Hugh of Grounay appears as lord of Hengham, is of great interest, because the Gournays and Sinclairs are frequently in close relationship, both in Normandy and England.

Sinclair goes on to say that the three fees which the Gournays held in England were in Euro Dapifer’s district of Colchester. They were Fordham, Liston, and Ardley. Liston (called Lexden) was afterwards the property of Hubert de Sancto Claro, governor of Colchester Castle.


Thomas Sinclair (p. 245-256) has several mentions of the Medway family and a Walter (or Walderne) St Cler who the author believes changed his name to Meduana and Medway when he got to England. Sinclair has this Walter as the father of Britel, Richard, William and Agnes. He goes on to speculate that it’s odd that so close a friend of The Conqueror would have been granted so few lands, and this name change might clear that matter up - Walter de Meduana in the records with more land. We have several instances of the name Medina in our STR name matches.  The Talbot name shows us here as well. Geffrey Talbot was given land at Aeslingham or Frindsbury, which later came into the possession of the St. Clare family. (Sinclair p. 246)  Sinclair also has (p. 330) Manasseur de Dammartin who held 3 knights’ fees “from Walter Sinclair of Medway’s twenty, heired from Geffrey Talbot.”  While Walter of Medway is porbably not the same as Walter St Cler, the STR match with Medina is interesting.

William de Warenne - Sinclair DNA


The Second or Oxford Charter of Stephen.1 (1136) connects the Warenna family with Ferrerilis, Sancto Claro, Roberto de Ver, and Hugone Bigot (Misc., Oxford Charter of Stephen)

Loyd has the Warennes as major tenants-in-chief. Holding of them in England were Wancy and Mortimer, among others.

Hugh de Wanci is named in the Domesday Survey as the mesne tenant of West Barsham, under the Earl Warren

I’ve seen some online sources claiming that Wanci is the same family as Vance / Vaux. Yet others claim exclusively Beux / Vaux / Vaus / de Vallibus as the origins of the family. Given the similar land claims, it appears to be the same family.

In Annonymous (p. 528) there is a miscellaneous notification dated 1204, “Notification [by the French king] that the honour of Cravechon which belonged to the count of Evreaux, is of his demense, and likewise the land of the earl Warenne and that of the earl of Arundel, and that of the earl of Leicester, and that of Geoffrey de Sai, the land of the earl of Clare, that of the count of Meulan, the honour of Montfort, which belonged to Hugh de Montfort, the land of Robert Bertran, the honour of Moustiers Hubert, the land of William de St. John, and all the lands of the knights who are in England ; and his rolls will name them all.”

St Clair DNA Castle Acre Priory
Castle Acre, Norfolk, England - In 1085, Ricardo de Sancto Claro
was a witness to charter of the powerful William de Warenne
(a near-kinsman of the Conqueror) to the priory of Castle Acre.


In 1085, Ricardo de Sancto Claro was a witness to charter of the powerful William de Warenne (a “near-kinsman of the Conqueror”) to the priory of Castle Acre.  Richardo de Sancto-Claro, or St. Clare, gave the monks of Castle Acre his right in the church in free alms for ever. (Booth, p. 97)

I find Willemus Talebot witnessing William de Warenne giving land to Castle Acre Priori in 1085. (Gurney, Appendix LXIII)

In 1085, Hugh de Wanci (Vaux) witnessed a deed of William 1st Earl of Warren and Surrey, in which he gave churches and lands to Castle acre Priory. Hug de Wanci as a witness and as giving churches himself. Other witnesses are Willemus Talebot, Radulfus de Wanci.  Ralf de Wanci had another son beside Ralf and Roger - Hugh, who granted Castle Acre Priory his land of West Barsham. (Gurney, Appendix LXIII, "On the Family of De Wauncy.") Gurney also has Ricardo de Sancto Claro as a witness to that gift.

Baron Robert De Vallibus (born, as supposed, in Normandy, about year 1095), the youngest of those three Brothers who came into England with their father about 1120, who had such large Possessions in Cumberland by the gift of Ranulph de Meschines, about King Stephen’s Time (1134 to 1154)....Seated himself in Dalston, in Norfolk, there founded the Priory of Penteney...Moreover, he gave to the Monks of Castle Acre, in that County, for the health of his own Soul...Children Robert the Fat, Gilbert, Hubert (who had a mill at Pentney).

Baron William De Vallibus (Dalston, Norfolk, b. c. 1120) confirmed the grand of his father to the Monks of Castle Acre, in Norfolk.

Dodsworth (p. 50) has Willielmus Talebot mentioned in a charter with Hugo de Wanci.  

Later, (p. 52) Dodsworth has Roberti de Vallibus and Willielmi de Vallibus (de Vals) mentioned giving land to Castle Acre Priori. Witnesses for Willielmi include Robertus filius Warini, and Gerardus filius Warini.

In 1067, on the King's departure for Normandy, William de Warren was joined with Hugh de Grentmesnil, Hugh de Montfort, and other valiant men in the government of England, under the superior jurisdiction of the Earl-bishop Odo and William Fitz 0sbern. 

re: The honour of Belvoir. In 9 Ed. II. one of the Sinclairs[sic] is noted as holding lands from this honour or barony, and in 6 Ed. III. Thomas Sinclair succeeds Edmund de Pinkeney, who had temporary possession of some of his lands. In 20 Ed. III. he holds lands from the honour of Belvoir, which in 37 Ed. III. John de Sco Claro held. Sir William Vaux and Ralph Hastings succeeded him. (Sinclair, T. p.152)


In the 226 of Edward I. Robert de Vere, earl of Oxford, is said to have given the manor of Beeston in frank-marriage with Joan, his daughter, to William, son of John earl Warren and Surry. (Armstrong, p. 8)


I find no mention of this surname in Loyd. They might have come over later or their name may have come from a place-name in England.

In the last year of Henry I, Walter de Eisselega (ASHLEIGH) renders an almost identical account of 58 sh. and 9d. for the scutage of his small fees in the same county. He had got possession of the St. Clare property. (Bates p. 28)  In fact, as Keats-Rohan confirms, Eisselega (Ashley) was St. Clair’s brother.

Thomas Sinclair (The Sinclairs of England, p. 75) has the records of the king's court mentioning ongoing issues between Ralph de St. Clare and Walter de Esselegh (Ashley).  St. Clare was the claimant and Ashley was the tenant.

Walter de Esselega / Ashley was the successor of Bretel de Saint-Clair at Stoke Trister in Somerset. In 1210-12 he answered for ten knight’s fees of the honour of Mortain. This indicated that he held both Stoke Trister and Cucklington in Somerset. K-R believes he was probably a tenant of Margaret de Bonun in 1166. (K-R, V-2, p.449)


Loyd (p. 88) states that they were tenants of Eudo Dapifer and that they originated in the Arrondissement of St. Lo. In Loyd, the connection to the abbey of Savigny is stated.
Also stated is ownership of land at Thaon and Vilers. Moretonii / Mortain is also mentioned. Keats-Rohan (V-2, p.684) has Haimo (Hamo) and brother William giving the land of Richard de Vilers to Savigny with the assent of Stephen count of Mortain. This at once may indicate a relationship between the three surnames. In fact, a thorough study of Keats-Rohan (K-R, V-2) shows relationships or proximity between several families:
Bigod, Mortain, Lanvallay, Mayenne/Mayor, Montcanisy, Esselega/Ashley, Vilers


Sigma: William the King; Matilda the Queen; Matilda daughter of Walter [wife of Ralph Taxo]; Odo of Bayeus; Robert Count of Mortain; Roger de Montgomeri; Roger de Beaumont; Richard Vicomte of the Avranchin; William Abbot of Caen; Ralph de Vallibus; Ralph fit Geoffrey' Ralph his nephew; Ralph de Purs Aqua; Indulf de Estin; Oger de Tolreio…. (Whitwell)

A Vaux / Mortain / Moreville connection from  which looks well documented. 

Hubert de Vaux [a], Lord of Gillesland, b abt 1132, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England, d abt 1165. He md Grecia abt 1152. She was b abt 1136.
Children of Hubert de Vaux and Grecia were:
Ranulph de Vaux
b abt 1147.
Beatrice de Vaux
[b] b abt 1155, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England, d 24 Mar 1216/17. She md Sir William de Briwere abt 1170.
Ranulph de Vaux b abt 1147, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England, d 1198. He md Alice abt 1168. She was b abt 1152.

Child of Ranulph de Vaux and Alice was:
Robert de Vaux b abt 1175, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England. He md Maud abt 1202. She was b abt 1185.
Child of Robert de Vaux and Maud was:
Hubert de Vaux b abt 1202, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England. He md Aline abt 1220. She was b abt 1205.
Child of Hubert de Vaux and Aline was:
Maud de Vaux b abt 1224, of Gilsland, Cumberland, England. She md Thomas de Multon abt 1236, son of Thomas de Multon and Ada de Morville.

a. He received barony of Gilsland in Cumberland from Henry II in 1158.
b. Douglas Richardson believes her Beatrice [de Vaux] to be the daughter of Hubert de Vaux by his wife Grecia (Grace), based upon various pieces of evidence he has accumulated over the years, and that before she married Hubert, she was the mistress of Reynold Fitz Roy (aka de Mortain), Earl of Cornwall, by whom she bore a son, Henry Fitz Count.  


Loyd has the Mullens / Molineux as tenants-in-chief with the following families holding of them in England: Mandeville and Neobourg.  Interestingly, Loyd also has the Mandevilles holding under the Montforts.

Agreement DDIN 56/10  
(16 Jun. 1298)
These documents are held at Lancashire Record Office

Archival history: 91,39
(1) Sir William le Botiler of Werinton (Warenne), Adam of Pulle and Alice his wife and (2) Gilbert son of Gilbert of Halsale, concerning the diversion in the course of the Alte in Lidiate, to the damage of the mill at Ekergarthe. Sir William to be allowed to dam the water on the lands and woods of Gilbert, in order to turn the river back to its old course, but to keep such lands near the river free from harm and from flood. Witn. Sir John of Vilers, Sir Henry of Kikeley, knights; Thomas Banaster, Alan le Norrais, Gilbert of Sutteworth; Robert le Norrais; Richard of Molineus of Sefton; William of Coudray; William Blundel; Mathew of Haydoc; Alan of Rixton. Given at Lidiate, Mon. after St. Barnabas Apostle, 26 Edw.I. Seal, two birds(?) CREDE MICHI

The Vilers surname is interesting in that there is research which indicates that some of St Clairs of Colchester may have changed their name from Vilers.
[no title]  BCM/A/1/25/1  
[c. 1200]

These documents are held at Berkeley Castle Muniments
Alice de Berkele and Thomas her son. n.d.

Alice has granted to Thomas all her land of Berkeley; rent 12d. a year.

Witnesses: John abbot of St. Augustine's, William abbot of Keynsham, Master Maurice de Slimbridge, William de Morevill, Maurice and Henry de Berkeley, Alice's sons, Gilbert and William, chaplains of Slimbridge, Wiot de Vilers and Walter his brother, William de Hulle, Elias de Slimbridge.
[Please quote SC57 at Berkeley Castle Muniments when requesting this file]

The Moreville name is very important to the St. Clairs who came north into Scotland. They received land from Moreville. 


Anonymous, “Calendar of Documents Preserved in France: Illustrative of the History of Great Britain and Ireland. A.D. 918-1206, Volume 1,” Edited by J. Horrace Round, M.A., Printed for Her Majesty’s Stationery Office by Kyrk and Spottiswoode, printers to the Queen’s Most Excellent Majesty. 1899

Armstrong, Mostyn John, "History and antiquities of the county of Norfolk Volume VIII, Containing The Hundreds of Launditch, Mitford, and Shropham." Printed by J. Crouse, for M. Booth, 1781

Bates, Rev. E. H., M.A., Paper presented to the Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society "The Family of De Urtaico" published in "Proceedings of the Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society, Volume 42" Published by Taunton: Barnicott and Pearce, Fore Street, 1896
A funny reference by Bates on one of our family’s “sacred texts” “The Sinclairs of England.” In his first footnote on this book, Bates says ‘A work to be used with great caution.’

Bates, Rev. E. H., M.A. "Two cartularies of the Benedictine abbeys of Muchelney and Athelney in the county of Somerset" Harrison and Sons, Printers 1899

Bennett, James Arthur "Report on the Manuscripts of Wells Cathedral, Volume 10, Part 3" Printed by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1885

Berkeley, James de, F. J. B. Winchester, John de Grandison, Buckfast Abbey, "The Register of John de Grandisson, Bishop of Exeter, (A. D. 1327-1369): 1360-1369, together with the register of institutions" B. Bell & sons, 1899

Bloomefield, Francis, "An essay towards a topographical history of the county of Norfolk: containing a description of the towns, villages, and hamlets, with the foundations of monasteries ... and other religious buildings ... Collected out of leiger-books, registers ... and other authentic memorials Francis Blomefield  pp. 441-452'Freebridge Hundred and Half: Grimston', An Essay towards a Topographical History of the County of Norfolk: volume 8, pp. 441-452.

Booth, M. "The History and Antiquities of the County of Norfolk: Launditch, Mitford, and Shropham. Volume VIII. Containing the Hundreds of Launditch, Mitford, and Shropham." Printed by J. Crouse, for M. Booth, 1781

British Archaeological Association, “Collectanea archaeologica: communications made to the British Archaeological Association, Volume 2” Longman, Green, Longman, and Roberts, 1871

Brown, Vivien, “Eye Priory cartulary and charters, Part 2,” First published 1992 for the Suffolk Records Society by The Boydell Press an imprint of Boydell & Brewer Ltd, Suffolk,  ISBN 0 85115 322 4
Shows documents which connect Malet, Mayno de Sancto Claro (same as Main de Sancto Claro), Reginaldo de Warenn(a), and Ranulpho de Glanvill.

Burke, John, ESQ. (commoners) "A genealogical and heraldic history of the commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, enjoying territorial possessions, or high official rank, but uninvested with heritable honors, Vol. I" Published for Henry Colburn, by R. Behtley, New Burlington Street 1834

Burke, John, (peerage) “A general and heraldic dictionary of the peerages of England, Ireland, and Scotland, extinct, dormant, and in abeyance. England” Henry Colburn and Richard Bentley, New Burlington Street. 1831

Camden, William, Esquire “Remaines Concerning Britaine: Their Languages. Names... [etc.]”  Printed by Thomas Harper, for John Waterson, 1636

Clay, Travis and David C. Douglas. Originally published as Volume CIII of The publications of the Harleian Society, Leeds, England, 1951. Reprinted Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. Baltimore, 1975  ISBN 0-8063-0649-1

Cleveland, Catherine Lucy Wilhelmina Powlett (Dutchess of Cleveland), “The Battle Abbey Roll: With Some Account of the Norman Lineages, Volume 3,” First printed by John Murray, Albemarle Street, 1889. Reprinted by Nabu Press, 2010 ISBN1145406181, 9781145406186
   Covers the origins of the Warenne (Wareyne) family and Mortemers & Simon de Montfort. Also covers the origins of the Martin family and Vaux (de Vallibus) family.  Cleveland has Roger's brother Ralph, also called ' filius episcopi,' was founder of the house of Warren. The house of Mortimer was thus connected both with the ducal Norman house and with the great family which attained later the earldom of Hereford, while its kinship with the lords of the house of Warren, earls of Surrey after the Norman conquest, was even more direct.
This entire area regarding the Mortimer connection to the Warenne family is currently under much debate and best avoided until medieval experts get it sorted out.

Dodworth, Roger, John Stevens, John Caley, Sir Henry Ellis, Bulkeley Bandinel, Richard Cowling Taylor "Monasticon anglicanum: a history of the abbies and other monasteries, hospitals, frieries, and cathedral and collegiate churches, with their dependencies, in England and Wales; also of all such Scotch, Irish, and French monasteries, as were in any manner connected with religious houses in England, Volume 5" Published by Longman, Hurst, Rees, Orme & Brown, 1825

Douglas, David C., "William the Conqueror, the Norman Impact Upon England," University of California Press Berkeley and Los Angeles, California, Copyright 1964, renewed 1992 by David C. Douglas, ISB N: 0-520-00350-0

Essex, "Transactions of the Essex Archaeological Society, Volume 7" Published by the Society at the Museum in the Castle., 1900

Eyton, Robert William V-1 "Domesday Studies: An Analysis and Digest of the Somerset Survey (According to the Exon Codex), and of the Somerset Gheld Inquest of A.D. 1084, as Collated with, and Illustrated by Domesday" Reeves & Turner, 196, Strand, & 100, Chancery Lane, 1880

Garnett, George & John Hudson “Law and Government in Medieval England and Normandy, Essays in honour of Sir James Holt,” Cambridge University Press, 1994  ISBN 0 521 43076 3

Garretson, Cox & Company, The Columbian Cyclopedia, 1897

Green, Judith A., “The Aristocracy of Norman England,” Published by the Press Syndicate of the University of Cambridge, 1997 ISBN 0 521 33509 4

Green, Judith A. “The Government of England Under Henry I,” Published by the Press Syndicate of the University of Cambridge, 1986 ISBN 0 521 37586 X

Gurney, Daniel  "The record of the house of Gournay." John Bowyer Nichols and John Gough Nichols, Printers, 25 Parliament Street, London, 1848.

Hammond, Matthew, "Notes on the de Vaux lords of Dirleton" Website:

Howarth, David, “1066, The Year of the Conquest,” Penguin Books, 1977 ISBN 0 14 00-5850 8

Keats-Rohan, K.S.B. V-1 "Prosopography of persons occurring in English documents, 1066-1166, Volume 1," Boydell & Brewer Ltd, 1999

Keats-Rohan, K. S. B. V-2, “Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166 II: Pipe Rolls to `Cartae Baronum' “  (Vol 2) (Hardcover), by K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press (April 15, 2002) ISBN-10: 0851158633, ISBN-13: 978-0851158631

Keats-Rohan, K.S.B. Paper - "Domesday Book and the Malets: patrimony and the private histories of public lives," 1996 Printed Nottingham Medieval Studies 41 (1997) 13-56.

Loyd, Lewis C., “Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families,” edited posthumously by Charles

Lower , Mark Antony, "A compendious history of Sussex: topographical, archæological & anecdotical. Containing an index to the first twenty volumes of the "Sussex archæological collections,"

Misc. (Magna Carta), “Magna Carta: A Commentary on the Great Charter of King John,” with introduction by William Sharp McKechnie. Printed in Glasgow by Maclehose, 1914.  APPENDIX. DOCUMENTS RELATIVE TO, OR ILLUSTRATIVE OF, MAGNA CARTA. - Misc (Magna Carta), Magna Carta: A Commentary on the Great Charter of King John, with an Historical Introduction [1215]  Accessible online at The Online Library of Liberty,

Morganstern, Anne McGee & John A. Goodall, "Gothic tombs of kinship in France, the low countries, and England" Penn State Press, 2000 ISBN 0-271-01859-3

Naworth castle, "An historical and descriptive account of Naworth castle and Lanercost priory; with a Life of Lord William Howard, and an Account of the Destruction of Naworth Castle,by fire, May 18th 1844. The Second Edition with Engravings." Carlisle: Published by I. Fletcher Whitridge, 1844

Nichols, John Gough (Editor) F.S.A., "The Herald and Genealogist (Volume 4), London, 1863-69

Page, Augustine & John Kirby, "A supplement to The Suffolk traveller [of J. Kirby] or topographical and genealogical collections, concerning that county," Printed by Joshua Page, J.B. Nochols and Son, 25, Parliament Street 1841

Platts, Beryl “Scottish Hazzard Volume Two: The Flemish Heritage,” first printed by The Procter Press, Greenwich, London SE10 8ER, ©Beryl Platts, 1990  ISBN 0 906650 04 06

Pearce, Edwin & James R. Bramble, "Index to Collinson's History of Somerset" Barnicott and Pearce, Athenaeum Press, Fore Street, 1898

Richardson, Douglas, & Kimball G. Everingham "Magna Carta ancestry: a study in colonial and medieval families" Genealogical Publishing Com, 2005  ISBN: 0-8063-1759-0

Roffe, David, “Decoding Domesday” Boydell & Brewer, 2007 ISBN 978 1 84383 307 9

Roffe, David and K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Book and the Malets: patrimony and the private histories of public lives, with an Appendix on Welbourn Castle, Lincolnshire" Journal    Nottingham Medieval Studies, Publisher Brepols Publishers, ISSN 0078-2122 (Print),
Issue Volume 41, Volume 41 / 1997

Seton, Robert, “An Old Family: or, The Setons of Scotland and America” Brentano's, New York, 1899

Sinclair, Niven, Notes from his email correspondence in 2011. His sources unknown.

Sinclair, Peter - Website -
This website covers Peter's own researches into the Saint-Clair family of England. Peter is helping with our research in England and we correspond frequently.

Sinclair, Thomas, "The Sinclairs of England" Published by Trübner, 1887

Somerset Record Society Vol. VIII “Two Cartularies of the Augustinian priory of Bruton and the Cluniac priory of Montacute in the country of Somerset,” Harrison and Sons Printers, London 1894

Strevett, Neil, “The Anglo-Norman Civil War of 1101 Reconsidered,” a paper presented to the XXVI Proceedings Of The Battle Conference 2003, then printed in “Anglo-Norman Studies XXVI. Proceedings Of The Battle Conference 2003,” edited by John Gillingham. First published 2004 by The Boydell Press, Woodbridge. ISBN 0 84383 072 8

Stöber, Karen, "Studies in the History of Medieval Religion: Late medieval monasteries and their patrons: England and Wales, c.1300-1540" Boydell Press, 2007  ISBN 1 84383 284 4
This book is very useful in understanding the mindset of the important medieval families towards religion and religious houses.

Tanner, Heather J., “Families, friends, and allies: Boulogne and politics in northern France and England, c. 879-1160” BRILL, 2004
“An analysis of the interrelationships between the counts of Boulogne and their neighbors in Flanders, Picardy, Normandy, and England.”  Also, "…illuminates the little studied relations between less powerful counts and their neighboring territorial princes."

van Houts, Elisabeth, “The Warenne View of the Past 1066-1203,” a paper presented to the XXVI. Proceedings Of The Battle Conference 2003, then printed in “Anglo-Norman Studies XXVI. Proceedings Of The Battle Conference 2003,” edited by John Gillingham. First published 2004 by The Boydell Press, Woodbridge. ISBN 0 84383 072 8

Website – (

Website - Washington Family -
regarding the descendants of the des Arques family.

Welch, F. B., “Manor of Charlton Kings, later Ashley,” Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Vol. 54, 145-165, 1932
This paper connects the St Clairs, Ferrers, and Ashley families.

Whitwell, R. J. (Robert Jowitt), d. 1928, Johnson, Charles, 1870-1961  "Regesta regum anglo-normannorum, 1066-1154.  Great Britain. Sovereign, Davis, H. W. Carless (Henry William Carless), 1874-1928

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